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altyfc Joined: 27 Jul 2004 Location: Aardvarkland Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 8:06 pm	Post subject: Healthcare employees What are your thoughts about people that work in healthcare? I am full of admiration for them. They tend not to be paid all that well (in the UK at least) - particularly the likes of nurses - yet they do so much good. Do you have what it takes to work in that field? Or is something that only certain people are good at do you think? Aaron


Kim Joined: 10 Aug 2004 Location: UK Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 9:40 pm	Post subject: Another one I can't resist lol There is something called "Agenda for change" coming into the NHS in the UK quite soon. It's all about changing how people are paid etc. To put it bluntly, it's an excuse to pay the lower paid i.e care assistants etc even less, whilst the managers will end up with huge pay rises. It stinks, (and I speak as one of those managers!!) Cheers Kim

altyfc Joined: 27 Jul 2004 Location: Aardvarkland Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 10:18 pm	Post subject: Hmmm... there's something not right there by the sounds of it, Kim. This seems to have been kept very quiet... is this something that the media is likely to pick up on more as the time comes? Aaron

iRuleThisForum Joined: 23 Jul 2004 Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 10:29 pm	Post subject: Kim wrote: To put it bluntly, it's an excuse to pay the lower paid i.e care assistants etc even less, whilst the managers will end up with huge pay rises. It stinks, (and I speak as one of those managers!!) Do you think it's better to pay more to care assistants and pay less to managers? It's pretty important to have good management in any industry, so I'm curious to know what's your take on that.

altyfc Joined: 27 Jul 2004 Location: Aardvarkland Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 10:32 pm	Post subject: I don't work in the industry but I would argue that it's more important to have the managers on moderate salaries and the lower paid workers on acceptable salaries, than it is to have the lower paid workers on very meagre salaries and the managers being paid large sums. Just paying more for management doesn't necessarily mean you'll get better managerial staff! Aaron

iRuleThisForum Joined: 23 Jul 2004 Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 10:35 pm	Post subject: Quote: Just paying more for management doesn't necessarily mean you'll get better managerial staff! I think you are absolutely right, but I was just wondering if there is an effective way to have good management besides compensating them for their work.

altyfc Joined: 27 Jul 2004 Location: Aardvarkland Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 10:38 pm	Post subject: Yes, I believe there is, and I believe that it's the same as with any job. Providing a good working environment, good benefits... simply look after your staff and protect their interests. Aaron

Kim Joined: 10 Aug 2004 Location: UK Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 11:48 pm	Post subject: I agree entirely that decent managers should be paid well. However I don't think it should be at the expense of others. I speak as one of those ex workers. I worked dammed hard whilst I was staffing on the wards, I've now climbed the ladder, and though I do my job well, I'm the first to admit I don't work anywhere near as hard as I did then and I'm paid double (go figure)!! Kim

iRuleThisForum Joined: 23 Jul 2004 Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 12:18 am	Post subject: Quote: I've now climbed the ladder, and though I do my job well, I'm the first to admit I don't work anywhere near as hard as I did then and I'm paid double (go figure)!! I think you should be rewarded for your past hard work by being compensated more today; however, striking a good balance is always difficult.

altyfc Joined: 27 Jul 2004 Location: Aardvarkland Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 7:17 am	Post subject: Why not be rewarded for your past hard work at the time that you're doing it, though? There are many hardworking employees that never progress (for whatever reason); if that happens, they're not going to see the benefits of their efforts. Isn't it funny how these things work out? I used to work extremely long hours, have no social life, nearly 10 employees, etc. and just about make a living. Now I still work long hours (but not quite as ridiculous as before), have more of a social life, a family to enjoy, just one employee, and I'm probably earning 3 or 4 times as much. Aaron

iRuleThisForum Joined: 23 Jul 2004 Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 11:24 am	Post subject: Quote: Why not be rewarded for your past hard work at the time that you're doing it, though? I thought you were going to ask me that. Quote: Now I still work long hours (but not quite as ridiculous as before), have more of a social life, a family to enjoy, just one employee, and I'm probably earning 3 or 4 times as much. I guess one possible answer is this; as you worked so hard and so long in the past, you know how to work smart now. You don't need to work so long, yet you can be more productive. That enables you to earn more and it applies to managers as well. I still have not answered the other question; how should we compensate those who work hard and long hours today? I don't know, it's a difficult question. Is it too cruel to say, "Get smart and find a way to earn more"?

altyfc Joined: 27 Jul 2004 Location: Aardvarkland Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 12:41 pm	Post subject: iRuleThisForum wrote: I guess one possible answer is this; as you worked so hard and so long in the past, you know how to work smart now. You don't need to work so long, yet you can be more productive. That enables you to earn more and it applies to managers as well. That's true in part but it's more the case that I'm now reaping the rewards of that early work, some years down the line. With the internet, it's proved to be important to try and establish yourself and your websites well as early as possible. That's exactly what I was doing but it's not until now that those labours have truly borne fruit. I suppose there is a parallel with managers here also. Aaron

cloningOk Joined: 25 Jul 2004 Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 12:02 pm	Post subject: Quote: There is something called "Agenda for change" coming into the NHS in the UK quite soon. It's all about changing how people are paid etc. What's NHS?

Kim Joined: 10 Aug 2004 Location: UK Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 12:30 pm	Post subject: National Health Service. Kim

iRuleThisForum Joined: 23 Jul 2004 Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 10:40 pm	Post subject: Quote: National Health Service. And National Health Service is ... The National Health Service (NHS) is the publicly-funded healthcare system of the United Kingdom. It was created on 5 July 1948 by Clement Attlee's Labor government, under health and housing minister Nye Bevan. The NHS followed on from the "Panel" system set up in 1911 under the aegis of David Lloyd George, and the primary care records are still stored in "Lloyd George" envelopes although nowadays most working records in primary care are computerized. The NHS was, and largely remains, a system of medicine, intended to be "free at the point of delivery" and paid for by taxes. Nigel Lawson, former Chancellor of the Exchequer once said that it was the national religion. Private medical care remained, and remains, available in the UK. The NHS continues to provide the vast majority of healthcare in the UK. The long-term future of the NHS and its day to day organization are major issues in British politics. Contrary to popular misconception, the founding principles of the NHS called for its funding out of general taxation, not through national insurance. The NHS is the third largest employer in the world after the Chinese army and Indian Railways. I'd greatly appreciate if anyone has more to say about NHS. The document was originally published at Wikipedia and the document is licensed under GNU Free Document License. If you'd like to find out more about obesity, you might be interested in visiting this page in Wikipedia.

Author

Message

altyfc

Joined: 27 Jul 2004

Location: Aardvarkland

Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 8:06 pm

Post subject: Healthcare employees

What are your thoughts about people that work in healthcare? I am full of admiration for them. They tend not to be paid all that well (in the UK at least) - particularly the likes of nurses - yet they do so much good. Do you have what it takes to work in that field? Or is something that only certain people are good at do you think?

Aaron

Kim

Joined: 10 Aug 2004

Location: UK

Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 9:40 pm

Post subject:

Another one I can't resist lol

There is something called "Agenda for change" coming into the NHS in the UK quite soon. It's all about changing how people are paid etc.

To put it bluntly, it's an excuse to pay the lower paid i.e care assistants etc even less, whilst the managers will end up with huge pay rises.

It stinks, (and I speak as one of those managers!!)

Cheers
Kim

altyfc

Joined: 27 Jul 2004

Location: Aardvarkland

Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 10:18 pm

Post subject:

Hmmm... there's something not right there by the sounds of it, Kim. This seems to have been kept very quiet... is this something that the media is likely to pick up on more as the time comes?

Aaron

iRuleThisForum

Joined: 23 Jul 2004

Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 10:29 pm

Post subject:

Kim wrote:

To put it bluntly, it's an excuse to pay the lower paid i.e care assistants etc even less, whilst the managers will end up with huge pay rises.

It stinks, (and I speak as one of those managers!!)

Do you think it's better to pay more to care assistants and pay less to managers? It's pretty important to have good management in any industry, so I'm curious to know what's your take on that.

altyfc

Joined: 27 Jul 2004

Location: Aardvarkland

Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 10:32 pm

Post subject:

I don't work in the industry but I would argue that it's more important to have the managers on moderate salaries and the lower paid workers on acceptable salaries, than it is to have the lower paid workers on very meagre salaries and the managers being paid large sums. Just paying more for management doesn't necessarily mean you'll get better managerial staff!

Aaron

iRuleThisForum

Joined: 23 Jul 2004

Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 10:35 pm

Post subject:

Quote:

Just paying more for management doesn't necessarily mean you'll get better managerial staff!

I think you are absolutely right, but I was just wondering if there is an effective way to have good management besides compensating them for their work.

altyfc

Joined: 27 Jul 2004

Location: Aardvarkland

Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 10:38 pm

Post subject:

Yes, I believe there is, and I believe that it's the same as with any job. Providing a good working environment, good benefits... simply look after your staff and protect their interests.

Aaron

Kim

Joined: 10 Aug 2004

Location: UK

Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 11:48 pm

Post subject:

I agree entirely that decent managers should be paid well. However I don't think it should be at the expense of others.

I speak as one of those ex workers.
I worked dammed hard whilst I was staffing on the wards,

I've now climbed the ladder, and though I do my job well, I'm the first to admit I don't work anywhere near as hard as I did then and I'm paid double (go figure)!!

Kim

iRuleThisForum

Joined: 23 Jul 2004

Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 12:18 am

Post subject:

Quote:

I've now climbed the ladder, and though I do my job well, I'm the first to admit I don't work anywhere near as hard as I did then and I'm paid double (go figure)!!

I think you should be rewarded for your past hard work by being compensated more today; however, striking a good balance is always difficult.

altyfc

Joined: 27 Jul 2004

Location: Aardvarkland

Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 7:17 am

Post subject:

Why not be rewarded for your past hard work at the time that you're doing it, though? There are many hardworking employees that never progress (for whatever reason); if that happens, they're not going to see the benefits of their efforts.

Isn't it funny how these things work out? I used to work extremely long hours, have no social life, nearly 10 employees, etc. and just about make a living. Now I still work long hours (but not quite as ridiculous as before), have more of a social life, a family to enjoy, just one employee, and I'm probably earning 3 or 4 times as much.

Aaron

iRuleThisForum

Joined: 23 Jul 2004

Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 11:24 am

Post subject:

Quote:

Why not be rewarded for your past hard work at the time that you're doing it, though?

I thought you were going to ask me that.

Quote:

Now I still work long hours (but not quite as ridiculous as before), have more of a social life, a family to enjoy, just one employee, and I'm probably earning 3 or 4 times as much.

I guess one possible answer is this; as you worked so hard and so long in the past, you know how to work smart now. You don't need to work so long, yet you can be more productive. That enables you to earn more and it applies to managers as well.

I still have not answered the other question; how should we compensate those who work hard and long hours today? I don't know, it's a difficult question. Is it too cruel to say, "Get smart and find a way to earn more"?

altyfc

Joined: 27 Jul 2004

Location: Aardvarkland

Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 12:41 pm

Post subject:

iRuleThisForum wrote:

That's true in part but it's more the case that I'm now reaping the rewards of that early work, some years down the line. With the internet, it's proved to be important to try and establish yourself and your websites well as early as possible. That's exactly what I was doing but it's not until now that those labours have truly borne fruit.

I suppose there is a parallel with managers here also.

Aaron

cloningOk

Joined: 25 Jul 2004

Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 12:02 pm

Post subject:

Quote:

There is something called "Agenda for change" coming into the NHS in the UK quite soon. It's all about changing how people are paid etc.

What's NHS?

Kim

Joined: 10 Aug 2004

Location: UK

Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 12:30 pm

Post subject:

Surprised

National Health Service.

Kim

iRuleThisForum

Joined: 23 Jul 2004

Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 10:40 pm

Post subject:

Quote:

National Health Service.

And National Health Service is ...

The National Health Service (NHS) is the publicly-funded healthcare system of the United Kingdom. It was created on 5 July 1948 by Clement Attlee's Labor government, under health and housing minister Nye Bevan. The NHS followed on from the "Panel" system set up in 1911 under the aegis of David Lloyd George, and the primary care records are still stored in "Lloyd George" envelopes although nowadays most working records in primary care are computerized.

The NHS was, and largely remains, a system of medicine, intended to be "free at the point of delivery" and paid for by taxes. Nigel Lawson, former Chancellor of the Exchequer once said that it was the national religion. Private medical care remained, and remains, available in the UK.

The NHS continues to provide the vast majority of healthcare in the UK. The long-term future of the NHS and its day to day organization are major issues in British politics.

Contrary to popular misconception, the founding principles of the NHS called for its funding out of general taxation, not through national insurance. The NHS is the third largest employer in the world after the Chinese army and Indian Railways.

I'd greatly appreciate if anyone has more to say about NHS.

The document was originally published at Wikipedia and the document is licensed under GNU Free Document License. If you'd like to find out more about obesity, you might be interested in visiting this page in Wikipedia.

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