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Scolls Joined: 05 Aug 2005 Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 12:18 pm	Post subject: Mental illness and behavioural problem I was just perusing through the topic list in this forum again, and I can't help noticing plenty of topics that actually look more like behavioural problems rather than actual mental illness. Do you think we're still looking too much for mental illness causes these days rather than looking for underlying environmental causes of behavioural problems?


altyfc Joined: 27 Jul 2004 Location: Aardvarkland Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 10:41 am	Post subject: I don't really know much about this but don't most mental illnesses result in behavioural problems? Are you saying that not all behavioural problems are necessarily caused by mental illness... is that it? Aaron

Scolls Joined: 05 Aug 2005 Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 9:59 pm	Post subject: Actually yeah. Looks to me nowadays when any behavioural "problem" is noticed, folks tend to want to try find some underlying fault with the brain itself, rather than bother to learn the history. I'm absolutely fascinated with this ADHD story. For example, "ADD and ADHD can both be difficult and cause distractibility, forgetfulness, disorganization, difficulty following rapid conversations, and low self esteem. Both can cause difficulty in completing school work and assignments in a timely manner. Either can affect an individual’s ability to keep track of their belongings or to keep track of time." ~ source Now, show me a kid that is/has/does NOT: 1) Distractible 2) Forgetful 3) Disorganized 4) Has difficulty following rapid conversations 5) have low self esteem (mostly because the word isn't yet in his vocabulary) Last I checked, kids want to play? Am I getting warm? I always thought that kids love distractions from the boring same-o' same-o'. Not sure they really deem anything important enough to want to remember (besides life-or-death information like when their birthday is, what they asked Santa for xmas, etc). Disorganized is the way to go!!! (toys should be packed in a manner such that they're almost equally distributed over as wide an area as possible, for example). Rattle your sentences to an adult, and you're likely to get a "Huh?" response. But suddenly if a kid won't stand for it, it must be something wrong with HIS brain??? Low self esteem... ask any kid... if you're lucky you'll get a "Huh?" response... Seems to me the problem lies rather more likely with parents not knowing what next to dream up about how to raise their kids. (As we all know, we learn all kinds of rubbish at school, except probably the most important thing on earth - how to raise children!) And then, much to our surprise, when we get behaviour we disaprove of, we conclude there might be something wrong with the child's brain? There's many examples of how we can create imaginary problems, rather than see them for what the are - learned behavioural problems, imo. What do you think? Or has something distracted you halfway through reading my post? Had to look up a tad since you forgot what the hell I was talkin about? Had some difficulty following it because you speed-read it seeing as the post looked a bit longish... Suffering a bit of ADD there? ...

altyfc Joined: 27 Jul 2004 Location: Aardvarkland Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 8:52 am	Post subject: Maybe it's all just a cover-up to find excuses for poor parenting. I agree that children can be over-analysed sometimes, and we forget that they are just children with childish mannerisms. Aaron

Scolls Joined: 05 Aug 2005 Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 5:57 am	Post subject: Perhaps making the mistake of expecting them to be adults too soon?

aprilcanadian Joined: 06 Oct 2006 Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 4:16 am	Post subject: Scolls wrote: Perhaps making the mistake of expecting them to be adults too soon? there is some diet issues that merit further study here. Omega3 in particular is showing promiss with curbing behavioral issues the government of newzealand and the uk have done some excellent research on this and finds it is better then ritilian. reason being westren diets are often lacking in fatty fish, thsi is why we may have behaviours that dont exist in other cultres that do have lots of fatty fish in the diet. my very smart wonderful son has adhd, odd, and cd and speach issues. i was devestated becuase i didnt want it to be true but not surprised when it became offical, but he is not aware of his diagnosis and will not be made aware until adulthood so he cant use it as a crutch or an excuse HOWEVER nothing can convience me these issues are not real....having 3 other children who do not have these problems im quite certian his hyperactivity isnt imagined... he is not on any drugs and i have refused them AMA instead, after much personal research, i give him omega 3 his teachers have noticed a huge differance since we started this in fact everyone has. i find certian foods really set him off...like things with red dye in it even though he is not alergic to it...so artifically red things are avoided, so is sugar except on special ocasions or when i know we will be very active that day. i make sure he gets ample excersize. his school has been very understanding and co-operative, and provides ample excersize as well. i communicate with his teachers daily although he is not aware of it. he was kicked out of two schools in kindergarten before i could find one willing to work with me instead of giving up on him. one of the biggest barriers to getting a support network established so my kid does NOT end up being a statistic is peoples atitudes, however a few hours alone with him can convience anyone its real. back to the diet and envorinmental factors my other 3 children are female males need more omega3 which could be a factor why boys represent the larger group diagnosed with add and adhd as well as odd and cd...and why only my male child presented these problems despite all 4 having the same background/diets/ and parent. it hurts a bit when people blame parents for this as i have tried my best. i breast fed, i did everything by the book and when the book didnt work i went out of my way to find answers that might help. I console myself with the fact that it seems to be working. granted his father left us and has been completly absent or years it still doesnt acount for all the boys issues (tho i sometimes secretly blame his father for some of it in my mind as its been the only trauma he has been exposed to) i will not give up on my child...even if we have some days that make me feel like all my hair will fall out. he will not be loaded up with drugs with terrible side effects just so my day is easier and i will keep looking for more natrual effective ways to help him tho i swear by omega 3 its made a drastic improvement.

cloningOk Joined: 25 Jul 2004 Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 10:10 am	Post subject: aprilcanadian wrote: reason being westren diets are often lacking in fatty fish, thsi is why we may have behaviours that dont exist in other cultres that do have lots of fatty fish in the diet. I'd called it "American" diet instead of "Western" diet. Also American diet has so many problems; it's probably fair to say that there is nothing good about American diet. Americans don't eat a lot of fish or seafood, but that's just one of many many problems.

Scolls Joined: 05 Aug 2005 Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 11:08 am	Post subject: It amazs me how many docs want to put patients in an altered state of mind rather than deal with the underlying physical/emotional issues. Had a friend who went to see a therapist. Identified some unsettled bereavement issues, and wants to prescribe anti-depressants. Ridiculous! What would it help to have a bunch of smiling people at a funeral? People NEED to mourn!!! Anti-depressants defeat the purpose!

cloningOk Joined: 25 Jul 2004 Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 12:53 am	Post subject: Scolls wrote: Had a friend who went to see a therapist. Identified some unsettled bereavement issues, and wants to prescribe anti-depressants. Ridiculous! What would it help to have a bunch of smiling people at a funeral? People NEED to mourn!!! Anti-depressants defeat the purpose! Anti-depressants are definitely oversubscribed. Also too many people apparently believe that feeling a bit down is a medical problem. It's not. It's normal for everyone to feel a bit down. Everyone has the cycle of feeling happy, unhappy, a bit down and a bit up.

Scolls Joined: 05 Aug 2005 Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 7:36 pm	Post subject: Exactly! It's all part of life, and one needs to learn coping mechanisms to deal with our experiences, not numb them! Otherwise we might as well all smoke pot all day!

cloningOk Joined: 25 Jul 2004 Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 10:05 pm	Post subject: Scolls wrote: Exactly! It's all part of life, and one needs to learn coping mechanisms to deal with our experiences, not numb them! Otherwise we might as well all smoke pot all day! We should pay more attention to alternative medicine, in particular, kind of medicine that we do not have to rely on synthetic drugs.

Scolls Joined: 05 Aug 2005 Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 5:54 pm	Post subject: What kind of alternative medicine do you think?

iRuleThisForum Joined: 23 Jul 2004 Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 10:48 pm	Post subject: Scolls wrote: What kind of alternative medicine do you think? This may sound a bit kooky, but you often hear that your disease is not a result of chemical reaction, but it is a result of unstable mental state. Surely, there is a chemical reaction, but it is just a symptom, not the direct cause. This may sound a bit unscientific, but it is an important aspect of medicine to explore, IMO.

Scolls Joined: 05 Aug 2005 Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 11:16 am	Post subject: I think so too. Mind over matter sometimes, not just the other way round. Certainly in cases of serious drug abuse, there can indeed be lasting chemical influences caused by prolonged usage, but not every emotional problem needs have a chemical cause, but indeed such a chemical symptom may be caused by emotional stressors. (I like the way you think btw!)

iRuleThisForum Joined: 23 Jul 2004 Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 5:16 am	Post subject: Scolls wrote: Certainly in cases of serious drug abuse, there can indeed be lasting chemical influences caused by prolonged usage, ... <cough> GWB </cough> Sorry, I might be catching some weird cold here …

Author

Message

Scolls

Joined: 05 Aug 2005

Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 12:18 pm

Post subject: Mental illness and behavioural problem

I was just perusing through the topic list in this forum again, and I can't help noticing plenty of topics that actually look more like behavioural problems rather than actual mental illness. Do you think we're still looking too much for mental illness causes these days rather than looking for underlying environmental causes of behavioural problems?

altyfc

Joined: 27 Jul 2004

Location: Aardvarkland

Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 10:41 am

Post subject:

I don't really know much about this but don't most mental illnesses result in behavioural problems?

Are you saying that not all behavioural problems are necessarily caused by mental illness... is that it?

Aaron

Scolls

Joined: 05 Aug 2005

Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 9:59 pm

Post subject:

Actually yeah. Looks to me nowadays when any behavioural "problem" is noticed, folks tend to want to try find some underlying fault with the brain itself, rather than bother to learn the history.

I'm absolutely fascinated with this ADHD story. For example, "ADD and ADHD can both be difficult and cause distractibility, forgetfulness, disorganization, difficulty following rapid conversations, and low self esteem. Both can cause difficulty in completing school work and assignments in a timely manner. Either can affect an individual’s ability to keep track of their belongings or to keep track of time." ~ source

Now, show me a kid that is/has/does NOT:

1) Distractible
2) Forgetful
3) Disorganized
4) Has difficulty following rapid conversations
5) have low self esteem (mostly because the word isn't yet in his vocabulary)

Last I checked, kids want to play? Am I getting warm?
I always thought that kids love distractions from the boring same-o' same-o'. Not sure they really deem anything important enough to want to remember (besides life-or-death information like when their birthday is, what they asked Santa for xmas, etc). Disorganized is the way to go!!! (toys should be packed in a manner such that they're almost equally distributed over as wide an area as possible, for example).
Rattle your sentences to an adult, and you're likely to get a "Huh?" response. But suddenly if a kid won't stand for it, it must be something wrong with HIS brain???
Low self esteem... ask any kid... if you're lucky you'll get a "Huh?" response... Wink

Seems to me the problem lies rather more likely with parents not knowing what next to dream up about how to raise their kids. (As we all know, we learn all kinds of rubbish at school, except probably the most important thing on earth - how to raise children!)
And then, much to our surprise, when we get behaviour we disaprove of, we conclude there might be something wrong with the child's brain?

There's many examples of how we can create imaginary problems, rather than see them for what the are - learned behavioural problems, imo.

What do you think? Or has something distracted you halfway through reading my post? Had to look up a tad since you forgot what the hell I was talkin about? Laughing
Had some difficulty following it because you speed-read it seeing as the post looked a bit longish... Very Happy

Suffering a bit of ADD there? ...

altyfc

Joined: 27 Jul 2004

Location: Aardvarkland

Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 8:52 am

Post subject:

Maybe it's all just a cover-up to find excuses for poor parenting. I agree that children can be over-analysed sometimes, and we forget that they are just children with childish mannerisms.

Aaron

Scolls

Joined: 05 Aug 2005

Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 5:57 am

Post subject:

Perhaps making the mistake of expecting them to be adults too soon?

aprilcanadian

Joined: 06 Oct 2006

Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 4:16 am

Post subject:

Scolls wrote:

Perhaps making the mistake of expecting them to be adults too soon?

there is some diet issues that merit further study here. Omega3 in particular is showing promiss with curbing behavioral issues the government of newzealand and the uk have done some excellent research on this and finds it is better then ritilian.

reason being westren diets are often lacking in fatty fish, thsi is why we may have behaviours that dont exist in other cultres that do have lots of fatty fish in the diet.

my very smart wonderful son has adhd, odd, and cd and speach issues. i was devestated becuase i didnt want it to be true but not surprised when it became offical, but he is not aware of his diagnosis and will not be made aware until adulthood so he cant use it as a crutch or an excuse HOWEVER nothing can convience me these issues are not real....having 3 other children who do not have these problems im quite certian his hyperactivity isnt imagined...

he is not on any drugs and i have refused them AMA instead, after much personal research, i give him omega 3 his teachers have noticed a huge differance since we started this in fact everyone has. i find certian foods really set him off...like things with red dye in it even though he is not alergic to it...so artifically red things are avoided, so is sugar except on special ocasions or when i know we will be very active that day.

i make sure he gets ample excersize. his school has been very understanding and co-operative, and provides ample excersize as well. i communicate with his teachers daily although he is not aware of it. he was kicked out of two schools in kindergarten before i could find one willing to work with me instead of giving up on him.

one of the biggest barriers to getting a support network established so my kid does NOT end up being a statistic is peoples atitudes, however a few hours alone with him can convience anyone its real.

back to the diet and envorinmental factors my other 3 children are female males need more omega3 which could be a factor why boys represent the larger group diagnosed with add and adhd as well as odd and cd...and why only my male child presented these problems despite all 4 having the same background/diets/ and parent.

it hurts a bit when people blame parents for this as i have tried my best. i breast fed, i did everything by the book and when the book didnt work i went out of my way to find answers that might help. I console myself with the fact that it seems to be working. granted his father left us and has been completly absent or years it still doesnt acount for all the boys issues (tho i sometimes secretly blame his father for some of it in my mind as its been the only trauma he has been exposed to)

i will not give up on my child...even if we have some days that make me feel like all my hair will fall out. he will not be loaded up with drugs with terrible side effects just so my day is easier and i will keep looking for more natrual effective ways to help him tho i swear by omega 3 its made a drastic improvement.

cloningOk

Joined: 25 Jul 2004

Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 10:10 am

Post subject:

aprilcanadian wrote:

reason being westren diets are often lacking in fatty fish, thsi is why we may have behaviours that dont exist in other cultres that do have lots of fatty fish in the diet.

I'd called it "American" diet instead of "Western" diet. Also American diet has so many problems; it's probably fair to say that there is nothing good about American diet. Americans don't eat a lot of fish or seafood, but that's just one of many many problems.

Scolls

Joined: 05 Aug 2005

Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 11:08 am

Post subject:

It amazs me how many docs want to put patients in an altered state of mind rather than deal with the underlying physical/emotional issues.

Had a friend who went to see a therapist. Identified some unsettled bereavement issues, and wants to prescribe anti-depressants. Ridiculous! What would it help to have a bunch of smiling people at a funeral? People NEED to mourn!!! Anti-depressants defeat the purpose!

cloningOk

Joined: 25 Jul 2004

Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 12:53 am

Post subject:

Scolls wrote:

Had a friend who went to see a therapist. Identified some unsettled bereavement issues, and wants to prescribe anti-depressants. Ridiculous! What would it help to have a bunch of smiling people at a funeral? People NEED to mourn!!! Anti-depressants defeat the purpose!

Anti-depressants are definitely oversubscribed. Also too many people apparently believe that feeling a bit down is a medical problem. It's not. It's normal for everyone to feel a bit down. Everyone has the cycle of feeling happy, unhappy, a bit down and a bit up.

Scolls

Joined: 05 Aug 2005

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 7:36 pm

Post subject:

Exactly! It's all part of life, and one needs to learn coping mechanisms to deal with our experiences, not numb them! Otherwise we might as well all smoke pot all day!

cloningOk

Joined: 25 Jul 2004

Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 10:05 pm

Post subject:

Scolls wrote:

Exactly! It's all part of life, and one needs to learn coping mechanisms to deal with our experiences, not numb them! Otherwise we might as well all smoke pot all day!

We should pay more attention to alternative medicine, in particular, kind of medicine that we do not have to rely on synthetic drugs.

Scolls

Joined: 05 Aug 2005

Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 5:54 pm

Post subject:

What kind of alternative medicine do you think?

iRuleThisForum

Joined: 23 Jul 2004

Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 10:48 pm

Post subject:

Scolls wrote:

What kind of alternative medicine do you think?

This may sound a bit kooky, but you often hear that your disease is not a result of chemical reaction, but it is a result of unstable mental state. Surely, there is a chemical reaction, but it is just a symptom, not the direct cause. This may sound a bit unscientific, but it is an important aspect of medicine to explore, IMO.

Scolls

Joined: 05 Aug 2005

Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 11:16 am

Post subject:

I think so too. Mind over matter sometimes, not just the other way round.

Certainly in cases of serious drug abuse, there can indeed be lasting chemical influences caused by prolonged usage, but not every emotional problem needs have a chemical cause, but indeed such a chemical symptom may be caused by emotional stressors. (I like the way you think btw!)

iRuleThisForum

Joined: 23 Jul 2004

Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 5:16 am

Post subject:

Scolls wrote:

Certainly in cases of serious drug abuse, there can indeed be lasting chemical influences caused by prolonged usage, ...

<cough> GWB </cough>

Sorry, I might be catching some weird cold here …

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